For idiopathic constipation, an empirical treatment protocol with antibiotics or herbs may be worth trying to break the cycle.

“some kind of empirical treatment protocol is probably worth trying because they like what you were saying some people they constipated before they switch their diet maybe improves will they get diarrhea for a period of time and then it just goes right back where it was even if it's a dramatic shift in the in in the diet itself so at some point you have to break that cycle and so that's you know when you're working in a sort of a functional medicine type practice that you might try some empirical treatment just to sort of break that cycle Herbal or regular yeah Frank antibiotics yeah”