so you don't believe me just go camping by yourself for a night and see how well it goes and you know children who are um i think the ghastly term is ferberized there was a doctor named dr ferber who wrote a book about how to ferberize your children and get them to sleep in their own room uh put them quote down put them down early and then you and your wife or husband can have a nice evening on your own um he later recanted everything he taught in the early 1990s there's an article in the new yorker about it and he said he was dead wrong about making children sleep by themselves it was completely it was counter to evolution it was unhealthy for the child it was quite nice for the adults but not even that nice because the screaming of the of the terrorized child you know is is hard to take as well while they're being ferberized so so dr ferber himself actually recanted all of that it's worth tracking down