Removing ultra-processed foods from the diet is significant, and moderate amounts of red meat may be beneficial in their absence.

“i think there's two questions here let's address the first one which is it is about ultra-processed foods that make them so harmful for humans because i think that we can agree that that the absence of ultra processed foods is a huge variable in these diets and there is a pretty clear signal here that when you remove ultra processed foods the inclusion of at least from these studies moderate amounts of red meat maybe not pulse you know amounts of red meat but moderate amounts of red meat appear to even be beneficial for humans”