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Carnivore vs Omnivore part III. A friendly debate with James DiNicolantonio, PharmD

PS

Paul Saladino1h 45m · 2020-01-21

Support Rate

73%

174 of 239 claims supported

Support rate

174 of 239 claims supported

174 supported65 partial / not

Claims from this content

189

Well SupportedRegenerative agriculture practices improve soil organic matter, leading to more nutritious food.Well SupportedIt is possible to obtain 60 mg of vitamin C daily by eating animal foods nose-to-tail, with liver being richer in vitamin C than muscle meat.Well SupportedAncestral Supplements produces freeze-dried organ meat supplements in convenient gelatin capsules, sourced from grass-fed, grass-finished animals in New Zealand.Well SupportedThousands of people are following a carnivore diet and experiencing changes in various diseases, including autoimmune disease.Well SupportedA vitamin C dose as low as 10 milligrams per day was sufficient to correct scurvy in studies from the 1930s and 40s, with no observed clinical benefit from higher doses.

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A. Volkovreader

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Bookmarking — the dossier-vs-overview split is the right call. Most of the time I want overview; sometimes I want receipts.

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Would love a "what would change this verdict" RSS feed. Sign me up if it exists.

Well SupportedGut cells can utilize ketones from circulation, which enter the butyrate metabolic pathway, as butyrate is converted to beta-hydroxybutyrate before energy use.

Well SupportedBalancing sodium and potassium intake, aiming for a ratio of approximately 1:1 or slightly more potassium than sodium, is important for health.

Not SupportedVitamin C intake above 30-70mg per day may not provide benefits for humans and higher doses might be dangerous due to conversion to oxalate.

Well SupportedElevated TSH levels with high broccoli sprout consumption may indicate sulforaphane inhibiting thyroid hormone production.

Well SupportedPaul Saladino's eczema and asthma improved significantly after adopting a carnivore diet, eliminating plant and fungal foods.

Well SupportedVitamin C facilitates neutrophil migration and supports neutrophil function by acting as an antioxidant.

Well SupportedUrinary magnesium levels can be assessed using spot urine tests or test strips, as approximately one-third of dietary magnesium is excreted in the urine.

Well SupportedIntravenous vitamin C has 30-70 times higher bioavailability than oral vitamin C.

Well SupportedMeat is a good source of potassium, with approximately 2,800 milligrams obtainable from eating two pounds of muscle meat daily.

Not SupportedResveratrol has failed in human trials for conditions like non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and metabolic syndrome, and in the latter, it worsened dysglycemia.

Well SupportedAnimal foods, including meat, organs, and milk, are healthy for humans and should be included in the diet.

Well SupportedIncreasing soil organic matter by 1% per hectare can increase land's water-holding capacity by over 20,000 gallons per hectare.

Not SupportedInterventional trials show no benefit for higher doses of vitamin C.

Well SupportedEating organ meats like kidney and liver a few times a week is recommended for nutrient availability and quality.

Well SupportedA carnivore diet leads to significant health improvements for most people, with the option to add plants based on tolerance.

Well SupportedVitamin C intakes above the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for oral vitamin C are generally well-tolerated and safe for most people, despite the 2,000mg upper limit.

Well SupportedTo accurately assess magnesium status, it is recommended to use at least two measurements, such as blood plus urine or mononuclear cell plus blood.

Well SupportedEnvironmental hormesis, including ketosis, fasting, sunlight, exercise, heat stress, and cold stress, can activate Nrf2 without collateral damage.

Well SupportedHumans can obtain sufficient vitamin C from consuming animal products, which likely led to the loss of endogenous vitamin C synthesis.

Well SupportedIt is easy to obtain 50-70mg of vitamin C daily from an animal-based diet if the meat is fresh, not overcooked, and includes organ meats consumed nose-to-tail.

Well SupportedVitamin C is protective against lung cancer, with a 7% decrease in lung cancer risk for men for every 100mg increase in daily intake.

Well SupportedInsufficient sodium intake can lead to increased insulin resistance, elevated aldosterone and cortisol levels, and potassium wasting.

Partially SupportedThere is no definitive proof that vitamin C supplementation increases kidney stones in individuals who do not tolerate oxalates well at doses below 500mg.

Well SupportedAn elevated BUN on a carnivore diet may indicate salt wasting rather than kidney dysfunction.

Well SupportedDespite lower bioavailability, high magnesium concentration in some plant foods can provide twice the amount from animal foods.

Well SupportedA kidney supplement from Ancestral Supplements, containing DAO, can be helpful for individuals with histamine issues.

Partially SupportedGrass-fed animal fat in capsules (tallow) can increase fat intake and improve the solubility of fat-soluble vitamins.

Partially SupportedPaul Saladino has spent seven years gradually reintroducing foods like fruit, honey, and raw dairy to determine tolerance.

Partially SupportedOmega-3 fatty acids are fragile and prone to oxidation, especially when processed and stored in canned fish.

Partially SupportedPostprandial glucose excursions negatively affect the endothelium and other vascular markers.

Partially SupportedMany individuals report clinical improvements when certain plant foods are excluded from their diet, supported by case reports.

Partially SupportedKidneys accumulate more heavy metals than the liver.

Partially SupportedIndividuals thriving on a plant-based diet should continue with it.

Partially SupportedRemoving plants from the diet can improve certain health conditions.

Partially SupportedLow sodium diets may cause the body to retain sodium and other substances, potentially leading to subclinical hyperinsulinemia.

Well SupportedCooking plant foods can cause significant loss of vitamin C, while cooked animal foods show no known significant loss of vitamin C.

Partially SupportedVitamin C recycles oxidized vitamin E and is regenerated by glutathione in the cellular antioxidant system.

Partially SupportedReducing fiber and prebiotics can be healing for the gut.

Well SupportedSodium and water together regulate thirst and fluid balance.

Partially SupportedA bumped creatinine level in individuals on a carnivore diet may be due to increased breakdown of creatine in muscle meat, rather than kidney issues.

Partially SupportedThe gut flora shifts at the beginning of a carnivore diet, likely becoming less focused on butyrate production.

Partially SupportedAn animal-based (carnivore) diet has positively affected the lives of thousands of people.

Not SupportedConsistently taking synthetic Vitamin C supplements is associated with a two times higher risk of developing kidney stones.

Not SupportedHigh-dose vitamin C supplementation (500-1000mg) shows no effect on the incidence of the common cold in multiple interventional trials.

Partially SupportedWhen sodium intake is insufficient, the body can lose up to ten times the amount of magnesium in sweat.

Not SupportedVitamin C intake above 30-70 mg per day may not be optimal for humans and could potentially be dangerous.

Partially SupportedGenetic variation may make some individuals feel better with the inclusion of some plants in their diet.

Partially SupportedEliminating plants for a period can be the start of an elimination-reintroduction cycle to identify specific plant sensitivities.

Partially SupportedWild animals, including humans, naturally seek out salt licks, suggesting that adding salt to food is not unnatural.

Partially SupportedJames DiNicolantonio followed a diet that was approximately 98% carnivore, with less than 20g of carbs daily, for about two years, primarily consuming muscle meat.

Partially SupportedIndividuals with gut issues may need to adopt a diet that works for them and may not tolerate plant foods well.

Partially SupportedPersistent organic pollutants (POPs) are stored in the body from birth, released during fat loss, and can potentially bind to fiber and ligands in the intestinal tract.

Partially SupportedPatients on higher-protein carnivore diets may exhibit elevated BUN, creatinine, uric acid, and glucose, while vitamin D, folate, and sometimes iron can be decreased.

Partially SupportedMagnesium deficiency can cause low potassium, especially in individuals taking thiazide diuretics.

Partially SupportedUric acid may have taken over some of the antioxidant role of vitamin C following the loss of the GULO enzyme.

Partially SupportedOne medium potato provides approximately 1 gram of potassium.

Partially SupportedLow vitamin C levels in patients with sepsis may predict increased risk for organ failure.

Partially SupportedG6PD deficient individuals cannot adequately recycle NADPH to produce glutathione, impairing their ability to manage oxidative stress.

Partially SupportedHumans likely obtained sufficient vitamin C from their diet (e.g., ~15mg per pound of meat) and did not require high supplemental doses (500-1000mg).

Partially SupportedPlants can be harmful to some individuals, and this is a core consideration of the carnivore diet approach.

Partially SupportedThere is no definitive proof that individuals with G6PD deficiency will experience hemolysis from vitamin C supplementation.

Not SupportedArguments for plant-based diets are weak, and the film 'Game Changers' may promote misleading information towards veganism.

Partially SupportedThe retention of minerals like potassium and magnesium is dependent on sodium levels.

Partially SupportedOrganically grown crops have higher antioxidant concentrations and lower cadmium and pesticide residues than conventionally grown crops.

Partially SupportedPlant molecules are not required to produce adequate glutathione or activate Nrf2.

Partially SupportedThere is likely genetic variation in how individuals process oxalates.

Partially SupportedFor most individuals, consuming too much salt is less detrimental than consuming too little.

Partially SupportedAdequate potassium intake (3-5 grams per day) can mitigate issues related to normal sodium intake (4-5 grams per day).

Partially SupportedPlant foods primarily work by reducing the breakdown of Nrf2 and breaking down the inhibitor Keap1, thereby upregulating the body's own antioxidant response elements.

Partially SupportedShort-chain fatty acids (SCFAs) can be produced from protein intake and activate the same receptors as butyrate.

Partially SupportedStore-bought meat contains more lipid hydroperoxides than freshly consumed meat due to hanging and transportation time.

Partially SupportedSafe intake levels for kidney consumption range from 0.2 to 5 ounces for non-contaminated animals, based on a maximum cadmium intake of 30 micrograms per day.

Partially SupportedAgricultural revolutions can be hazardous to human health, as evidenced by skeletal remains showing health decline with the shift to grain-based diets.

Partially SupportedSpirulina and chlorella have been shown in clinical studies to reduce damage from heavy metals, pesticides, persistent organic pollutants, and flame retardants.

Partially SupportedHumans and other animals that cannot synthesize their own vitamin C have a greater capacity to recycle oxidized vitamin C in red blood cells.

Partially SupportedHistorically, the Inuit consumed approximately 100-350 milligrams of vitamin C daily from animal sources and plants.

Partially SupportedTaking a few grams of vitamin C for eight days can create a lag where oxalate levels in urine increase even after cessation of vitamin C intake.

Partially SupportedIndividuals with insulin resistance assimilate less vitamin C, potentially requiring less for cellular uptake compared to insulin-sensitive individuals.

Well SupportedHigh-dose IV vitamin C infusion in G6PD deficient patients can lead to hemolysis, indicating a pro-oxidant effect.

Partially Supported60 milligrams of vitamin C per day is sufficient to restore normal delayed hypersensitivity immune function.

Partially SupportedVitamin C intakes from diet at 500 to 1000mg are unlikely to be a concern for increasing oxalate load due to the small increase in oxalates formed.

Partially SupportedVitamin C can spontaneously convert into oxalate, potentially before ingestion.

Partially SupportedFresh, raw, or minimally cooked animal foods contain sufficient vitamin C to prevent scurvy.

Well Supported500mg of vitamin C is considered a reasonable dose for general use.

Partially SupportedPotassium is not as abundant in foods as commonly expected, making it challenging to reach 5,000 milligrams per day from all food sources.

Not SupportedConsuming a pound and a half of mixed plant molecules daily may not be beneficial and could have collateral damaging side effects.

Partially SupportedFasting insulin is a key metabolic biomarker.

Partially SupportedIn type 2 diabetics, 6,000 mg of sodium per day significantly improved insulin AUC and oral glucose tolerance tests compared to 3,000 mg.

Partially SupportedDoses of vitamin C ranging from 500 mg to 1,000 mg per day reduce the risk of colds, improve A1C and insulin sensitivity, and lower blood pressure in type 2 diabetics.

Partially SupportedKidney consumption carries a higher risk of cadmium exposure than liver consumption.

Partially SupportedAnimals under stress or exercising can produce up to the human equivalent of 100 grams of vitamin C.

Partially SupportedRegenerative agriculture practices can increase soil organic matter by approximately 50% annually.

Partially SupportedCadmium accumulates in kidneys and is a reason for its classification as a food toxin.

Partially SupportedAnimal farts are not a significant contributor to greenhouse gases.

Not SupportedPlant fiber is not the preferred method for mitigating dioxins due to potential issues like binding other minerals and the presence of phytic acid.

Partially SupportedChlorella can bind and reduce the absorption and body burden of dioxins.

Not SupportedThere is no observed benefit to consuming resistant starch in the human diet.

Limited ResearchThe ideal daily intake of vitamin C for humans is not well-established, and large doses may be damaging.

Partially SupportedInsulin-resistant individuals may require more sodium than insulin-sensitive individuals to prevent sodium wasting.

Partially SupportedVitamin C acts as an antioxidant by reducing lipid hydroperoxides and making red blood cells more resilient to ex-vivo damage.

Partially SupportedLymphoid tissue, like thymus and spleen, is highly saturated with vitamin C and was a significant source for true carnivores.

Partially SupportedVitamin C is a direct scavenger of superoxide anions and hydrogen peroxide.

Partially SupportedThymus contains approximately 40 milligrams of vitamin C per 3.5 ounces.

Partially SupportedInterstitial fluid, urine, and cerebrospinal fluid have significantly higher concentrations of vitamin C than blood.

Not SupportedPlant molecules may activate Nrf2 but also cause other negative effects in the body.

Partially SupportedVitamin C oxidation and breakdown is the primary concern for oxalate formation, rather than recycling.

Partially SupportedConsuming vitamin C through whole foods like camu camu or kiwis is preferred over supplements.

Not SupportedEliminating 50% of animal foods would negatively impact James DiNicolantonio's current well-being.

Partially SupportedVitamin C recycles vitamin E, preventing oxidative stress in cell membranes.

Partially SupportedIncreasing vitamin C intake from 20mg to 60mg in hospitalized patients improved metabolic markers.

Partially SupportedIngesting polluted air and increased UV radiation increase vitamin C requirements.

Not SupportedConsuming less than 1,500 milligrams of sodium per day is not advisable.

Partially SupportedCaffeine and exercise can lead to significant sodium loss.

Partially SupportedConsuming 78 milligrams of vitamin C per day is associated with a lower risk of gingivitis compared to consuming 23 milligrams per day.

Partially SupportedThe amount of vitamin C required to restore general health in animals that cannot synthesize it is approximately ten times higher than the amount needed to prevent scurvy.

Partially SupportedHanging meat for extended periods releases free iron which oxidizes fats, increasing lipid peroxides.

Partially SupportedThe Inuit historically had very low incidence of heart disease, extremely low rates of diabetes, and did not die from sudden chest pain, suggesting a diet primarily composed of 80-90% carnivore with adequate vitamin C can prevent cardiovascular disease.

Partially SupportedLow sodium intake can lead to a tenfold increase in magnesium loss through sweat.

Partially SupportedVitamin C recycles tetrahydrobiopterin, increasing nitric oxide production.

Partially SupportedIncreasing dietary magnesium intake and observing symptom improvement is a practical method to assess magnesium needs.

Partially SupportedApproximately 42% of ancestors from 10,000-12,000 years ago showed clinical indicators of scurvy.

Partially SupportedThe carnivore diet can be used temporarily as a cleanse for people with gut issues.

Partially SupportedA minimum of 200 milligrams of vitamin C is required for the majority of the population to achieve maximal rate of vitamin C transport into cells.

Partially SupportedSoil with 5-6% organic matter is significantly healthier than soil with 0.5% organic matter.

Partially SupportedAt least 15 to 20 different types of persistent organic pollutants released from stored fat can be neurotoxic.

Partially SupportedRelying on short-chain fatty acids from the gut may not be sensible when the gut is sick.

Partially SupportedConsuming approximately 12 ounces of muscle meat per day provides about 70 grams of protein, zinc, selenium, and B12.

Partially SupportedA sodium intake of 2,300 milligrams per day can lead to negative magnesium balance.

Partially SupportedFreezing meat increases protein and lipid oxidation products.

Partially SupportedConsuming tubers with fat and protein can mitigate blood sugar spikes.

Partially SupportedSerum sodium and potassium levels are poor indicators of total body electrolyte stores.

Partially SupportedSome individuals may have genetic variations that make them feel better with some plant foods due to polymorphisms affecting glucose conversion.

Partially SupportedLong-term ketosis or the absence of plant fiber is not considered a negative outcome.

Partially SupportedLow sodium diets can induce magnesium deficiency by causing the body to pull magnesium from bone and excrete it in urine.

Partially SupportedDioxin levels can be tested via blood tests in DEQ units, and chlorella, zeolite, or cholestyramine can be used for short-term removal if levels are high.

Partially SupportedNo clear negative effects have been observed from a pure carnivore diet in studies.

Partially SupportedHuman blood contains approximately 3,200 milligrams of sodium per liter, and kidneys filter a significant amount of salt, indicating humans are inherently salty and retain minerals from consumed animals.

Partially SupportedJames DiNicolantonio is a PharmD, cardiovascular research scientist, and author of 'The Salt Fix', 'Super Fuel', and 'The Longevity Solution'.

Not SupportedResveratrol can cause oxidation.

Partially SupportedGenetic variations, such as the number of amylase gene copies, influence carbohydrate processing and insulin response.

Partially SupportedReplacing 20 ounces of grass-fed muscle meat with other foods can result in significant cost savings.

Partially SupportedThe animals consumed today may contain contaminants, suggesting a need to consider the current context of food sources.

Partially SupportedRed blood cell potassium and magnesium levels may be better indicators of total body stores than serum levels.

Partially SupportedRemoving plant foods from the diet does not consistently alter markers of oxidative stress, inflammation, or DNA damage.

Partially SupportedPlant sources of magnesium are not concentrated, and humans likely obtained magnesium from water evolutionarily.

Partially SupportedSulforaphane can induce the formation of 4-hydroxy-nonenal (4-HNE), a potentially inflammatory oxidized lipid.

Partially SupportedWhole food plant-based diets improve HbA1c, diabetes markers, and pancreatic beta-cell function in randomized controlled studies.

Not SupportedConsuming extremely large quantities of meat or broccoli daily is likely unhealthy.

Partially SupportedAn evolutionarily consistent daily sodium intake for humans could be around 3,000-4,000 milligrams.

Partially SupportedThe required amount of salt for an individual depends on lifestyle factors and genetics.

Partially SupportedA randomized controlled trial showed that selenium, vitamin C (250mg BID), and vitamin E significantly reduced gastric cancer mortality and incidence in patients with H. pylori infection.

Partially SupportedSpices like turmeric and rosemary, extra virgin olive oil, and vinegar can help prevent the formation of harmful compounds when cooking meat.

Not SupportedStudies on ancestral salt intake may not have accounted for aquatic vegetation, consumption of the entire animal, or seeking out salt licks.

Partially SupportedThere is no clear evidence that eating a carnivore diet is harmful, despite theories about free iron ions and lipid peroxides.

Partially SupportedModern whole grains processed through steel roller mills are not comparable to traditional whole grains in resistant starch content.

Partially SupportedHumans have evolved to consume resistant starch, and it has always been present in the diet.

Partially SupportedConsuming resistant starch may benefit the microbiome by feeding it and producing butyrate, leading to an improved feeling of well-being.

Partially SupportedEpidemiological studies correlating higher blood vitamin C levels with better health outcomes may be influenced by health user bias.

Partially SupportedFood forms of vitamin C might differ in efficacy from supplemental ascorbic acid, but current evidence primarily uses ascorbic acid.

Partially SupportedCarnivore diet adherents in the speaker's practice do not show elevated lipid peroxides or drops in glutathione without vitamin C supplementation.

Partially SupportedHowler monkeys and spider monkeys consume approximately 700 mg of vitamin C daily, while gorillas consume about 5,000 mg daily.

Partially SupportedVitamin B6 levels may influence oxalate levels.

Partially SupportedThe speaker does not currently supplement with vitamin C, does not have scurvy, and experiences normal wound healing.

Partially SupportedAccessing animal skulls for cerebrospinal fluid and eye fluid could have been a significant source of vitamin C for early humans.

Partially SupportedCooking meat in a way that retains juices, such as oven baking, is important for preserving potassium content.

Partially SupportedKidneys from White Oak pastures have low levels of cadmium, lead, and mercury compared to shellfish.

Partially SupportedMeat from all-grass-fed farms like White Oak Pastures likely has lower levels of persistent organic pollutants.

Partially SupportedCooking meat at lower temperatures reduces the formation of harmful compounds.

Partially SupportedIngesting 75 grams of glucose in a solution during an oral glucose-tolerance test is not good for humans.

Partially SupportedOvercooking sweet potatoes significantly increases blood glucose spikes and reduces resistant starch content.

Partially SupportedIf experiencing salt cravings, one should consume salt, as overconsumption leads to a reduced craving later.

Partially SupportedPlant foods supplement nutrients like manganese and vitamin C that are low in animal foods.

Partially SupportedAnimal foods can be contaminated with toxic heavy metals, necessitating consideration of food sources.

Partially SupportedResistant starch increases GLP-1, which enhances insulin sensitivity and has other systemic benefits.

Partially SupportedPlant foods, like tubers, can be incorporated into a nutrient-dense diet alongside animal foods.

Partially SupportedDrinking 2 to 3 liters of spring water daily can provide hundreds of milligrams of magnesium.

Partially SupportedThe minimum daily sodium requirement for humans is likely at least 500 to 1000 milligrams.

Partially SupportedPaul Saladino consumes approximately 50% of his diet from animal foods and 50% from plant food sources.

Partially SupportedThere is a lack of strong interventional studies demonstrating that plants are beneficial for health.

Partially SupportedA shift towards a carnivore diet may decrease perceived sodium needs.

Partially SupportedSome individuals experiment with lower sodium amounts and feel well.

Partially SupportedAn excessive focus on glucose monitoring may lead to an undue fear of plant foods.

Partially SupportedBalancing sodium and potassium intake is a reasonable consideration for normotensive individuals.

Partially SupportedJames DiNicolantonio experienced better exercise performance and a 20-point drop in blood pressure when incorporating more undercooked sweet potatoes and plant foods into a low-carb carnivore diet.